Aaron Jenkins Talks PDRS, BESS & C&I Solar Incentives on the Solar Coaster Podcast

Audio Transcript:

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Welcome to a special edition of the Solar Coaster podcast, and today we’re doing a subsidy update on C&I, commercial and industrial solar and energy storage across Australia, and what incentives are available. Now, we’re gonna be doing a deep dive. One is gonna be the New South Wales PDRS scheme, and we’re gonna be looking at some significant changes which have just happened to the New South Wales scheme and how that’s making returns look ridiculously good. So if you’re based in New South Wales and you do commercial solar and storage, make sure you watch that chapter, ’cause it’s really gonna change the game on the volume you’re gonna be able to sell and install in the New South Wales market. Second area we’re gonna look at is the Victorian market, and look at the VEEC scheme and how you can access VEECs, which can be crazy how much, uh, VEECs you can get for solar systems up to 200 kilowatts and way over 200 kilowatts. So we’re gonna dig into that. And in this special edition of the Solar Coaster, it’s really great to have a co-host today, Andrew Thomson, our technical manager. Welcome back, mate.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Thanks. It’s good to be back. I feel like my life has revolved around residential solar and batteries for the last 12 months, and it’s good to have commercial, uh, back in the spotlight, because, uh, for me, I f- I find that really enjoyable.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Awesome, mate.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
It’s gonna be a great episode. And, and commercial is starting to really heat up again. And it’s great to have a special guest today, Aaron Jenkins, the CEO of Ecovantage. But mate, I think it’s your third time here on the podcast.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, third time’s the charm. I’ll try and do all right.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
[laughs]

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mate, awesome to have you back. And, uh, there’s a lot to dive into today.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Um, I got to watch the last episode because I wasn’t hosting it with you, Andrew.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
But in this case, um, I’m really excited to dig into the weeds on all of this, make what is somewhat of a complex subject simple out there so people can just get in, get in there and take advantage of these opportunities. So, uh, let’s dive right in.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Do our best.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So the first chapter of this podcast is gonna be about the New South Wales PDRS scheme. So those of you who don’t know who, what that is, that’s the Peak Demand Reduction Scheme. And when you install solar and energy storage under this scheme, you generate PRCs, which are Peak Reduction Certificates. But when I was having a chat to you before this, mate, what, what do you call them?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Everything in our world’s an acronym, so it’s a PRC.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
It’s a PRC. And w-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s a PRC for what you get, and it’s a perk by saying it, ’cause PRC is too long.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Yeah, mate. [laughs] Well, when you first said it, I was like, “Okay, you’re getting PRCs.” Uh, obviously you’re getting a perk when you get an incentive, but that, when we do say that, we’re meaning PRCs.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Um, Peak Reduction Certificates. Uh, so yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
We’ve got PRCs, we’ve got ESCIs, we’ve got VEECs. It’s-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
[laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
If you can’t say it easily, don’t worry about it.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Andrew, I think there’s been jokes before about how many acronyms are in this industry.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Oh. We have a training video for when we onboard staff ju- just focusing on abbreviations, just so people know what, what, what installers are talking about. Um, WEABS, earthing lugs, like there’s so many different names for things, and you gotta be across it.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
I might borrow that for my team.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, awesome. So PRC funding, it’s been around for some time now. I think 11 months ago we did an episode as it was really starting to kick off. For those who aren’t really aware of what the PRCs sc- PDRS scheme with PRCs, PRCs, has been up to, the changes just recently on the 1st of July, Aaron, can you just give us a little bit of a, a high-level summary of what the scheme has been up until the end of June?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, sure. So it’s not just a battery program, it’s not just a solar program, it focused on peak demand reduction, as you’d said. So each PRC is 100 watts of energy that can be controlled during a peak grid event.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And it’s been around for heat pumps, it’s been around for, or is around for air conditioners, batteries, VPP connections. It’s really just about getting the grid under control in New South Wales and making it as stable as possible.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And with the scheme so far, like what has been the most complex part for people? I know there’s some different steps that need to be taken, uh, than trading STCs, for example, or LGCs, um, under the renewable energy target. What has been the process for people to, from sales point, uh, through to installation, what’s, what, what’s different with this scheme?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, so it’s different to the federal program. You’ve got to be onboarded with an ACP, an a- credited certificate provider like ourselves, before you even begin the job, but you ha- get paperwork signed before the upgrade occurs-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… with your nomination form. And it’s a much more technical compliance process. So as opposed to a quick tick and flick, um, it really gets into the minutiae. If we think back to BESS1 when it was going gangbusters a year or two ago-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… um, that was a really big learning curve for a lot of the installers who are used to STCs, which is fairly light touch.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Getting more in there, but much lighter touch, to all of a sudden going evacuation diagrams, stickers, labeling-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… the whole shebang. So the PDRS is a amazing tool, does some really cool stuff for business models. Um, but you’ve gotta be prepared that people are gonna look really closely before you get your money.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm. And BESS1 was the first stage, then it moved on to BESS2? Is that right?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
BESS1 and BESS2 were launched concurrently. So BESS1 was the installation of a battery at the home.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, that really started to get its legs before it had its legs pulled out from under it when the cheaper home battery program launched.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
There was concerns about free batteries if you stacked that with the STCs-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… so that got put on hold. BESS2’s still going. That’s your VPP connection. So you’ve got a battery, you join a VPP, the program is willing to reward you for that.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, but really exciting now we’ve got commercial support with BESS3, 4, and 5.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Awesome. And before we get into the-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… changes and BESS3, 4, and 5, um, you’re mentioning there there needs to be a nomination form. So that’s something that I’ve really loved about the design of the P- uh, PDRS scheme, which is when the sale occurs and the customer, uh, is signing a contract and getting this investment, they actually have to be given, um, this nomination form to them at the point of sale. What does that detail, that document?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
The point is to have the smoke and mirrors out for the consumer, right? It says exactly who’s involved, who your ACP is, what you’re conducting, what the expectation is. The point is to demystify the entire program and provide transparency.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it’s, the PDRS does a really good job, like a lot of the state-based programs, of really putting the consumer first-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… and protecting them and their interests. So making sure they’re educated and everyone knows what’s happening-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… is step one.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Like, people knowing and ex- what the expectation is and what potentially the expected returns are, it’s something that, you know, I’m really passionate about. I wish the federal government’s Cheaper Home Battery Scheme was actually auditing the written statement.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
It’s a very similar document that’s part of, um, that scheme. But it’s not actually getting audited as part of, uh, the audit process with the CER. So it’s something we’d love to see, um, get implemented and, uh, I think, you know, people at CER, take note. I think it’s something that should be getting audited, um, as part of the Cheaper Home Battery Scheme to make sure that the people that are getting advice from the salespeople actually get the information, um, that they should be getting at the point of sale. Um, but, uh, you know, I’m not gonna get too sidetracked with that today. We’re here to focus on changes for commercial solar and energy storage. So let’s have a chat about the changes from the 1st of July forward. So you’re mentioning there’s now BESS3, BESS4 and BESS5. So can you explain to me first, uh, BESS3. And BESS3 is small and medium apartment battery installations. So Aaron, tell us a little bit about BESS3 and how that works.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. So BESS3 is about storage for apartment buildings. So it’s fantastic because BESS4 and 5 ex- explicitly exclude any residential dwellings.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So they’ve made a activity specific for residential apartment buildings. It’s not for townhouses. This is for genuine four-plus units at a time.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, 20 kilowatt hours up to 200 kilowatt hours.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s really made so that, you know, if you’re in apartment, the common issue is that you miss out really compared to your standalone dwellings. There’s not as easily accessible rebates.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
You’ve often got to have more complex technology. This brings in a solution for you. So it’s a really interesting activity that’s been put forward. It’s capped at five kilowatt hours of storage per resident. So it’s not saying they can’t have more than that.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But that’s where the rebate stops incentivizing it, so trying to make sure it’s right-sized for an apartment-type dwelling. And it’s got some serious returns. Like, you’re talking up to 20, $22,000 from a single claim in some cases.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it could really move the dial on a BESS3 claim.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And you were saying it’s a maximum of five kilowatt hours per unit. So if I have a unit complex that are looking to get solar and getting storage, if they have 10 units in that unit complex, then they can only access the subsidy on up to 50 kil- kilowatt hours of the storage. Is that right?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. Bang on. Exactly. So the PDRS has a lot of little levers in it to try and make sure that what’s being claimed is actually gonna be used.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s not just gonna be sitting there idle.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
We’d love to see appropriate inverter sizing to batteries, and it sounds like that’s helping really drive that.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And that’s one of them. You’ve got one to four.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So if you’re putting in a 10 kilowatt inverter-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… any storage beyond 40 kilowatt hours isn’t gonna get recognized. So once again, it’s gotta be used. It’s gotta be appropriately sized.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So that’s another one of the requirements. There’s lots here.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
There’s lots, yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
We’re gonna be unpacking as much as we can, but it needs to be a one to four ratio as well. Andrew, when we’re looking at unit complexes and some of the designs we do for people, um, around, you know, sharing energy amongst units and so forth, what are some of the things you see in that space?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Um, so typically there’s not a whole lot of roof space. Um, so typically the solar sizing is a, a lot smaller, potentially 20, 25 kilowatt. But it’s also actually, um, f- the limitation comes about from a, a product that’s commonly used in the market, an excellent product, um, the SolShare product, which we do distribute. Um, and effectively the SolShare product allows you to install a single solar system on an apartment building and then actually truly share that power between the different tenancies. There’s nothing else like it in the world. And, uh, up until, uh, recently, the maximum inverter size has been around 25 kilowatts, so that has formed the sizing for most of these projects. Um, and with this new, uh, BESS3, um, I expect to see a lot more of these going in as well.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Absolutely. That’s the whole point is to move the needle.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, really exciting. So big opportunity out there to be approaching, uh, blocks of units and putting storage on them, um, and an amazing incentive available there. And then if we go onto the other two new parts to the scheme, being BESS4 and BESS5.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And just to break those down for the listeners today, BESS4 is small and medium business battery installations, and BESS5 is commercial and industrial battery installations. Now, what’s the, the difference between these two sections of the program?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So they’re pretty similar. You’re right. Um, the main difference is the size of the battery you’re putting in. So a BESS4 claim taps out at 200 kilowatt hours.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Whereas a BESS5 claim stops giving incentive at 10 megawatt hours, but the battery itself can go up to 30 megawatt hours.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So they have to put a line in the sand. Different products, different requirements, different business cases and incentives needed.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, but very similar. If you’re a commercial business or a commercial facility that’s putting storage on your facility, um, BESS4 and 5 are gonna be really exciting.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Or even if you’re expanding storage, am I right in saying that BESS3 does not apply if they’ve already have a BESS on site?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
You are.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
But if, uh, BESS4 and 5s you can actually expand upon what’s, what’s there.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. Absolutely.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
If it is. Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, it’s, uh, if you need it and you’re gonna use it, once again, you’ve got all your using requirements there.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, and it, there’s all sorts of levers about making sure that you have to actually do something that’s gonna charge it-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… if you want to get the full rebate. So you can get perks from just a battery being installed in BESS4 or BESS5.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But if you install a solar system at the same time or within a 90-day window of the battery being commissioned-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… you’ll get even more perks again.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Right.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it’s all about making sure what you put in gets used and is really needed.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
And it’s not just a token solar system, four panels in a string and then bang, claim the rebate. There’s, they’ve, they’ve thought about it.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, it’s-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… it’s that one to four ratio once again.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So if you can’t charge the thing in a four-hour period from your solar on a good day, it’s not gonna be eligible.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm. So that ratio on the PV to the battery- To be able to get those additional perks is wonderful.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. Once again, if you’re putting 100 kilowatts and 500 kilowatt hours-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… that solar doesn’t really count. It’s n- you’re not gonna get your extra perk for all that.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Okay. But if I put in 100 kilowatts of PV and 400 kilowatt hours of batteries, then I can get those perks.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Gotta be a good business case.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Awesome. And one thing, you know, you might… One thing to catch there from what Aaron said as well, and that’s in the new, uh, requirements of this policy, it’s within 90 days. So you do need to be putting the P- it can’t be PV that was put in there 12 months ago and get the perks for that. It needs to be done within a 90-day period.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. It’s, uh, the longest four-letter word in our world is the ACP, but additionality.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So all these programs are about moving it or creating new things to happen, making sure that if it wasn’t gonna happen, this gives it that nudge to get the business case in the right territory.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
If your solar was there from five years ago, um, there’s no additionality to that. It was already there.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
So, so is that 90 days before or after?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s within 90 days of the battery being commissioned.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Perfect.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So the idea being it needs to be happening at the same time-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… but you might sign off the solar before you install the battery. There might be a DNSP hold up or something to that effect.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Might be materials even. So just within 90 days of each other.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Perfect.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And it’s being installed and commissioned within the 90 days.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, correct.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So if I’ve just… I’m a solar retailer and I’ve just put in a 100 kilowatt PV system, and I wanna go back and quickly approach them for a battery-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Gee, you’re cutting it thin, mate

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… I’d probably be struggling with the DNSP. [laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm, you’re cutting it thin.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So, yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. So it’d probably be a sale of both of those things together in most cases.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, correct.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And for the BESS4, up to 200 kilowatt hour BESS, is that the, the sweet spot?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Look, the sweet spot’s what the site needs.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Of course.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But under BESS4, yeah, 200 kilowatt is where you stop, and then af- anything bigger than that, you’re gonna go into BESS5.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Okay.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So 200 kilowatts, still you, depending on the perk price, you might be in 20-odd thousand dollars in s- incentive.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So pretty decent.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So BESS4 tops out at 200 kilowatt hours, and then you’re into BESS5.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
What is the difference in the requirements under BESS4 and BESS5? I know BESS5 goes up to multi megawatt hour, so it’s more in the grid level space or u- small utility space. What’s, um, what’s the difference in requirements?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So BESS3 and BESS4 both need the batteries to be on the CEC list.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, BESS5 doesn’t specifically say it has to be on the CEC list. Your DNSP might. We were talking before-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… saying you’ll probably still end up using a product that’s gone through that for most of your DNSPs.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
However, you don’t have to have a CEC battery under BESS5, and there are different requirements, um, just along the way to acknowledge that really you’re entering in utility or grid scale stuff.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Like, this is for facilities. It’s not for standalone. It’s behind the meter.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
However, you’re starting to get into that territory, so just acknowledging it’s a different world.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
That’s a good thing to understand, Andrew, ’cause we’ve had a lot of sites where we’ve done half a megawatt hour batteries or megawatt hour batteries with clients that are not on the CEC approved list.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
They weren’t eligible for STCs or anything, so it wasn’t a requirement. And we, we, we have products like that, don’t we?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
That, that’s right. And I, but I do think that networks have been clamping down a lot more over time, um, that it used to be the Wild West, but now some networks even require the panels to be on the, the CEC list, even if you’re doing an LGC claim. So yeah, best to check with the distributor.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. And one of the requirements under the PDRS is that you show proof of DNSP approval.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So you can’t walk around it.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Um, there’s been a lot of talk about sizing. Can we just touch on the fact that if we’re talking about a 200 kilowatt hour system, what, what is, what is that sizing based on?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Uh, that’s on your usable capacity, right? So interesting enough, spec sheets are used for some of it, but not all of it under the way the PDRS is written. So usable capacity is listed at 90% of the nominal battery capacity on the spec sheet. So even if the spec sheet says that no, usable capacity might be 95% of the nominal capacity-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… as an ACP, we have to do all of our figures as 90% of the usable, uh, of the nominal capacity.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
All right.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So a bit different to how it’s done in previous or different programs.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But New South Wales Government’s done a really nice job of trying to make sure that there’s not loopholes or just wasted incentive being used.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Sure, ’cause I, I, I know from a design perspective that even though I might be able to access 100% of a battery during a power outage and maybe bring it down to zero in an extreme case, daily self-consumption purposes, I can’t choose 100% in the app for my inverter. So they’ve actually put a lot of thought into this again.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, exactly. And a requirement under all the activities is that these batteries can be remote controlled.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
They can be on a VPP or through a demand response program, and a demand response aggregator is not gonna run your battery down to 1%.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, it’s highly unlikely. So again, that 90% gives you that kind of threshold of reality.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
So there’s a bit of fear with the cheaper home, um, battery scheme saying that there needs to be VPP compatible, and people are a bit hesitant. “I don’t want my battery controlled.” So again, with this scheme, needs to be kind of capable of connecting to a remote server, but no requirement to do so.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, correct.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it has to be capable, eligible. In the case of BESS5, you know, some of those products might not be listed as VPP ready-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… because that’s a strange thing to market a megawatt hour-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… battery pack as, but in that case, we’d need proof. All right? So demand, who’s the demand response aggregator that you might wanna use that with?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Get them to give us in writing that they can control that particular product.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Sure.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it’s fairly reasonable. Again, just acknowledging the big end of town is a bit different to, you know, your local shopping center.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Could it be something as simple as, for example, that, um, a lot of the different utility services use, use, I believe, CSIP. So if a manufacturer was to say, “Hey, our product is, uh, CSIP,” um, is, is that going to be suitable, or you need a bit more information?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
That’ll be an interesting one that will come through once we get a little bit more details closer to September and the launch date-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… and also with how it’s gonna be audited. So the interesting part of an ACP is we can make the call that we’re satisfied.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Then we get independently audited, um, several times a year. Um, we have to satisfy them, and then they have to be in agreeance with the regulator when they check their books.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
No.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… you really got to make sure there’s no doubt. So again, there’s not a lot of loopholes or gray areas-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… in these by design because, you know, in BESS5, we’re talking up to two plus million dollars available for some batteries.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, you don’t want to-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
When you get to that territory-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… it’s about you’ve got to stand by what you did.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Um, you don’t want to be holding the bag if, uh, something goes wrong there as the trader or the company that sold the system. [laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Very much. I’d like to avoid that. [laughs]

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. So seems like there’s a lot of, a lot of complexity to this program and, you know, that’s why- Working with a, a, a trader like yourself who know what they’re doing is gonna help you make sure you get these incentives right and you meet all the requirements. You know, it’s another key one. I just heard it’s gonna be very easy for somebody to do a calculation and go, “Okay, it says the nominal capacity of the battery is 100 kilowatt hours,” but really they’re only gonna be eligible for 90 kilowatt hours-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
90, yeah

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… under the incentive. Um, so really important things there to watch. Uh, Andrew, like what’s some of the data that you’ve got there in front of you today? I know you had some interesting insights for people on what’s happening in regards to system size modeling and, and expected returns. Like what’s some stuff you can share with the market that you’ve got there?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Um, yeah, definitely. So at Supply Partners, uh, we’ve partnered with, uh, Orchestra for a few years now. Orchestra is a pretty amazing, um, financial feasibility modeling tool. Um, and I’ve yet to come across anything like it. Now Orchestra, um, actually performed a C&I industry survey last year. Um, we took part. A lot of the larger volume retailers who are already playing in the space took part, and they did it in partnership with Sunwiz. So there’s been a lot of good information that came out of that webinar, um, that we actually use to, to formulate our, our modeling and, and discussions when, when sizing systems. Um, one of the, the most important ones that I guess helps guide us towards a, a system size or an appropriate system comes to payback. So, uh, based on the survey, they found that customers require battery paybacks of less than seven years to buy in most cases. So when we’re using our, um, when we’re doing our financial, um, feasibility modeling, um, and we can actually spit out hundreds of different system sizes, different solar and battery configurations, we then, um, narrow down, uh, to the ones that typically fall around the seven-year payback or less, just as a starting point. Although, again, um, payback’s not always everything. Some people might need to hit certain carbon targets or, or other measures, but for the most part, payback is, is the key driver. Um, so with this battery rebate, it’s actually going to help customers, um, uh, fall within that seven-year payback, um, in a lot more cases. Or if someone’s working to a particular budget, allow them to get more bang for their buck. Um, for example, I actually went through and, and visited a project we’d worked on recently for a dental surgery in, in New South Wales. Um, they’re in the Ausgrid area. Um, and we modeled a 100 kilowatt solar system with 200 kilowatt hours of storage, which, um, at the 90% mark I think it worked out to around 180 kilowatt hours. I forget the exact numbers. Um, but the rebate there was worth around, uh, just under 50K. And what it did for this project is it took the project from a 6.1-year payback initially, which is a very attractive rebate-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
… even without any incentives, and it brought it down to 4.8 years, which is, uh, exceptional.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Was that w- just with the PRCs, mate, or was that stack-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Just with the PRCs

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… But you can stack the federal scheme-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Um-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… on top?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Not, not for this particular size.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Because it was 200.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
It was 200 kilowatts. Yep, 200 kilowatts.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
But if an example, just, just to clarify though, in the example that it was 100 kilowatt-hour battery-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, these are stackable

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… you would be able to double, you would be able to double stack.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yep.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
But in this modeling example, because it’s a 200 kilowatt-hour battery, you’re obviously exceeding the 100 kilowatt hour threshold for the cheaper home battery scheme. So this one’s-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
That’s right

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… just based. So that really great return-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… is just based on the PRCs.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yes.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And you g- and you’re seeing the returns improve from f- from what was it to?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Uh, so it was 6.1 years, um, down to 4.8.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Wow.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Now this is using, uh, mid-range equipment, not the most expensive, not the cheapest in market. Um, it’s a, again, a dental surgery, so they, they operate almost seven days a week during business hours. But the key driver, and this is really important for anyone who is approaching a candidate, some key questions that you can ask, for example, might be is, uh, w- what is the customer chasing? Now, this particular one was a perfect example of the information that, that, that anyone should, should get. Um, and if I recall, the customer said, “We wanna cut our bills in half. We want, um, backup power, and we have a budget of X amount.” So that really helped us drill down into the optimum system that’s gonna meet their needs. So what does this extra battery rebate mean for them? It means that they’re actually gonna get a lot more battery within their budget. So, um, which, which will mean that if this dental surgery gets a power outage, that they can keep it running for that little bit longer. Um, so yeah, it’s very, very exciting.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Perfect example of that additionality I was talking about.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
They would’ve got 180 kilowatt hours, now they go 220, whatever the case may be.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Awesome. And if we do the modeling, and if, you know, people out there have done modeling with us in a New South Wales site before the PRC scheme h- came back in-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… reapproach Andrew and his team and get it remodeled with this, ’cause the returns are gonna look awesome.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Definitely.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And you’re probably gonna have a higher chance of closing the deal. But if we put together a modeling that looks attractive today, um, you know, where’s the risk, Aaron? Like, I suppose, you know, what’s the market meant to do on price? Like, what are the chances of, you know, us doing a modeling up based on today’s PRC price? Um, they go out and present the contract and the proposal, um, the end user, the b- commercial building owner says, “Yep, let’s go ahead,” um, wants to hit the button on it. Uh, is your firm and other firms out there able to do forward contracts on PRCs to protect people’s profit position?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, we’re able to do that. So we do that with other C&I projects. We’re heavily involved with C&I, like VEEC and LGCs, et cetera.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So we can back-to-back it and put a forward position in for large projects, or even for a strip of large projects if you need it.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
We’re currently taking a bit of a wait list on that, ’cause a few little boxes to tick before the activity goes live.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But yeah, absolutely. So the thing to know about PRCs is they are the wild west of certificate markets.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Over the last couple years we’ve seen below a dollar, we’ve seen up to $3.60. So-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Wow

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… you can imagine, you know, three and a half times, sometimes four times change in, uh, rebate value.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s a big, it’s a big market, and it does have some big swings.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And that could really be the profit of people’s jobs. So-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
More. Yeah. [laughs]

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, and more, and more. Like even if I go back, way back to when we were doing residential, like before we were supply partners, we were an installer, and we used to install residential before there was the clearing house and the cap at $40.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And the price moved from, it was $48 down to like 18, around $18. And we, we got burnt way back then, mate, on, on not having a forward. And then we learnt from that and started doing forwards. So if there was one thing I’m gonna recommend to people out there is if you’re building a proposal under the PRC scheme, as Aaron said, we’ve gone from below a dollar up into the $3 section. Uh, this is how much it can move, and then make sure that you are putting a hedge in place, especially if you’ve got a network application that’s gonna take time. Need to procure your hardware, need to get it to site, get it installed, and get it commissioned. If the price in the market crashes out, you could lose all your profit. So-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Good point

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… really important to be prudent in this area.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, look, shameless self-plug, but partner with a decent ACP that’s got a history and understands the C&I space.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Because not everyone can get a forward position in the market.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
You’ve got to go into forward positions with banks, large retailers. They’ve got their own credit checks on who the ACP is.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, but also you need someone who understands the flexibility of the program and what you’re gonna need. So nailing down the due date of when your 10 megawatt hour battery’s gonna come online-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… when it’s nine, 18 months in advance.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Easier said than done.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yep.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Back to backing a forward with that, takes a bit of effort. So just make sure you understand what makes it eligible and also what the market’s gonna do or what insurance you need to have against the market.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, awesome program. Just like any tool, if you use it wrong, you’ll hurt yourself.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And what’s your prediction, mate, on price? Like where’s price at now? Where do you think price is g- What do you think… If you were gonna… Your crystal ball, what are you, what is it telling you price is gonna do over the next 12 or so months?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
I think the big thing on that is gonna be the PDRS target announcement for the next compliance year that hasn’t been published.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So we saw PRC pricing drop 50 cents within two days of the activity being launched. So it’s already taken a little bit of a dip, um, but we saw over-creation in previous years. Next year’s target’s really soft. The year after that, so the compliance program each year goes from April to March.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it’s really the ’27, ’28 target. When that gets published, if that’s nice and beefy, we’ll see a strong PRC price. If it stays soft, they could drop real fast. So it’s a, it’s a moving target.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
I can’t stress that enough. PRCs, when they launched BESS 1, we were out there publicly tiptoe and tell everyone, “Just be aware the market has some pretty big ups and downs.”

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Same message. It’s, it’s got some pretty big ups and downs. Fantastic tool, but don’t roll the dice.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
We, we ran the numbers before, and with a 50 cent change on maybe a 200 kilowatt hour system, um, that’s about a eight and a half grand hit that n- I don’t think you wanna be taking. So, um, definitely be conservative. And, um, again, with the modeling side, again, ideally, try and make the system stack up even without the rebates and take it as a win or make the system larger.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, don’t bet the farm on it. So if you go on our website, we’ve got a live PRC calculator for all this now. We’ve got a $2.50 PRC price being used as an example on there.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Now, it’s just for examples, but the market’s still at $3. So just, you know, read into that what you will, but just don’t assume that every cent is gonna go into the project and run it to bare bones because, again, there’s a lot of changes are gonna come in the next three months before this actually kicks off on September 1st.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
So I know there’s a lot of documentation around this, but is there any harm, for example, in someone doing a, a quote for a project assuming a PRC price, let’s say $2 or something conservative, but once the whole project wraps, they go to claim it, they get more, and then actually offering their client the increased amount? Would there be anything stopping them from doing that?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s hard to imagine a customer getting upset with an extra discount.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… you’re safe.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, really exciting. And if anything, I’m hearing, if I put my commercial hat on, it’s probably get out there and move quickly while the price is high. Potentially in September with hopefully there being a big, um, liabil- liability obligation out there, uh, coming in in that, that future year. That means the price might be quite strong, but it’s about trying to get out there and, and take advantage of that while it is high, get those forwards in place against pipeline projects. Is that something you’d recommend?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Oh, look, I always recommend doing good business if it makes sense.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But I think the PRC market itself is gonna be watching that September to January, February period really closely-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… to see how much creation does kick off.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
‘Cause if it goes through the roof, high creation against a low target means a low price.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Low creation against a high target means a high price.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it’s gonna be a really interesting end of the year.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
‘Cause you’ve got your end of the year rush anyway in our industry.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So combine that with an exciting new PRC launch, so let’s wait and see.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Peak demand reduction scheme, what an exciting opportunity for all the businesses in the state of New South Wales. Um, you know, before we move off that chapter, Andrew, you know, from the, from being the manager of our technical team, any other points or data sets you’ve got to share around, uh, the New South Wales scheme before we move on to, um, the other markets?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, de- definitely. And again, just a shout-out to Orchestra, um, with some of the really awesome data. Um, not everyone would have been able to jump into the, the webinar, um, but some of the additional information that they did share through their survey, um, was that, uh, in 2025, New South Wales led the way for battery attachment rates with half of all projects modeled including a battery. So again, really strong case for commercial batteries in New South Wales. Um, the average battery size they found modeled was around 500 kilowatt hours, so that’s gonna fall under the, the BESS 5 category. Um, and this data, actually, I’d, I’d be keen to get your feedback, Aaron, is that they found, um, when this survey was run, and things change very quickly, that LGCs were still the dominant incentive mechanism despite the rise of STCs and LGC stacking. Um, VEEC and LGCs are equally popular in Victoria. What’s the latest on that?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
LGC market’s crashed through the floor.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So I reckon if you ran that exact same survey again, you’d get a very different answer now.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
We’ve seen almost 75% drop-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Wow

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… in LGC power station registrations in the C&I sector.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So- Yeah, that program is not really doing its role to support C&I consumers anymore, unfortunately.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Hopefully, uh, someone’s watching it and decides to make some changes along with your information statement.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But, uh, yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
VEEC,

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
that’s our next section, right? We’ll get into it, but they’ve-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… done some amazing stuff, and they’re really trying to make up for absence of an LGC incentive these days.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
No, d- um, definitely. And, and to be honest, I’ve seen the same. So we’ve always, uh, sold LGC metering. I know you’ve used a bit of it. Um, and we’ve, uh, historically included in our modeling, um, but we’ve actually seen more and more people recently say, “Hey, don’t, don’t bother including it in the modeling.”

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
We’ve heard of people who’ve actually been claiming LGCs, who’ve had power stations, who’ve just decided to stop even with the administration.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Hmm.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
And some people haven’t done anything at all. There are still commercial businesses factoring it in. And something that I’ve found, and again, do your own research, but I’ve found that the cost of metering, the cost of administration, registering the power station, ongoing costs, actually can be equivalent or more than the returns on LGCs at the moment. So if you haven’t looked it into it recently, run the numbers and make sure the LGCs are working for you. [laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And look, I think that’s the same conversation of what we’re talking about. What’s going to happen with the perk price? Where’s it going?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Can you put a position in there? Work with someone who lives and breathes it-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… and understands it, and who can help you look at it. I mean, whilst the LGC price has been absolutely terrible for quite a while now, we saw it quadruple in 10 days last month.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, and then it softened again, so-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… there are still the highs and lows. If you take a position when it was at its peak, you’re a whole lot better off than you were otherwise, so.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Knowing the industry and understanding it is really the… In LGC land, it used to be pretty stable.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm, mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s a bit like we’ve seen a $40 STC price for how long now? Um, the other end of the spectrum is the LGC market, so.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Know what you’re playing in. Don’t put your business at risk.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. St- stay up to date. I think a lot of people still think in the back of their mind that maybe LGCs are worth $80 each, and, um, yeah, take another look. [laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
I’d be a lot happier if they were.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
[laughs] Yeah, definitely. Well, New South Wales’, uh, PDRS scheme, great update there. Um, probably time to change gears and jump into the next chapter. So continuing on our subsidy update for commercial around the country, we’re gonna have a look at the Victorian market and the Victorian Energy Upgrades Program, which generates VEECs, another one of these great acronyms. Um, it’s been running for some time, but there’s a lot of people that either don’t understand how to access VEECs for commercial solar or see it as too complex or too onerous. Now, we just want to dig into a little bit of how you access these VEECs and how you can do it in the right way. I know that, uh, you can get VEECs up to 200 kilowatt solar and above. Now, if we look at the 200 kilowatts and below space, we’ve seen recently a lot of people stopping at 100 kilowatt solar systems ’cause they can get the STCs, and because the LGC price has crashed out so far, uh, people are either stopping at 100 kilowatts or trying to understand how to do VEECs up to 200 kilowatts. One thing that, uh, I’ve learned having a chat to you before this episode, and I look forward to you explaining it to the audience in a moment, is up to 200 kilowatts is a unmeasured scheme. So you basically put in the system, and we’ll go into detail in a moment on, on how you apply and get ready, uh, to access this, these incentives. But, uh, you can essentially put in that 200 kilowatt system, um, and get that subsidy like you do STCs in some ways. And then as soon as you go over 200 kilowatts, it’s a measured scheme, so you need to be making sure you appropriately size the PV to the low profile at the site, um, which in hand will actually help you sell batteries even though the scheme isn’t incentivizing batteries. Uh, it’s incentivizing self-consumption. And I’m actually gonna go back to, uh, something we did around 10 years ago, which was the commercial solar masterclass series, where we had 100 people per venue. We had 250 people at the MCG, one of the great events we did, and we helped a lot of people come into commercial solar back then. And it was all just about, uh, appropriately sizing the PV to the load profile to make sure it was consumed at the site. And that’s just trying to do the right thing by the site owner and getting him the best return and not having a system dynamically ramped down. But when it comes to VEECs over 200 kilowatts, it’s actually detrimental to their-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Hugely

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… them getting their money back.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Absolutely.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Um, let’s, let’s look at the two sections separately, though. So Aaron, if we can have a look at, first of all, up to 200 kilowatt solar, so unmeasured. What, how does that work? Um, how do people start the process and, and get involved in VEECs?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, absolutely. Well, to, how to start the process and get involved with the VEECs, you need to be onboarded with an activity provider like Eco Advantage.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So, you know, onboarded, we have to make sure you’re licensed, you’ve got your house in order, insured, et cetera. And we’ve got to teach you and train you how it works because it is very similar to like STCs, but the bar is a lot higher. There’s a lot more money on the table.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, and there’s also a lot more consumer protections in place to make sure that the customer who is getting that 200 kilowatt solar system, ’cause it’s not measured, is still gonna get the benefits that they’re promised.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
you think about STCs, you’ve got your selfies, you’ve got your serials, et cetera. Now add on top of that proof that it was conducted safely, proof that it’s online and on a portal the customer can see, proof that the DNSP connection is done, injection testing’s finished, backstop testing.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
The whole nine yards. Um, but worth it. I mean, like you said, if you’re stopping at 100 kilowatts, you’re still leaving almost the same amount of money again as STCs on the table in VEECs for that second 100 kilowatts up to 200.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And that’s point of sale discount. You don’t have to wait a year or two years like you do under other methods. It’s right then and there. So there’s a lot of incentives for 200 kilowatts under. It’s under a method called Activity 47-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… under the VEU program that creates VEECs, like you said.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s, it’s worth having a look at.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Um, I’ll just s- pause you there for a second, um, because there is a lot of confusion in this, in the market even today. If someone was installing a 200 kilowatt system and they wanted to claim VEECs upfront, w- What can they do in the way of STCs? ‘Cause that’s a bit of a fine line.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It is a fine line. Now, under the VEU program, we don’t mind. Go for it. Stack it, send it to the moon.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Go for it. Um, you gotta make sure that you’re compliant with the SRAS requirements there, though. So for that to happen, really they’ve gotta be two different installations. You’ve gotta stage it. You’ve got your 100 kilowatts STCs. If the customer’s stoked with you and wants you th- three months later to do another 100 kilowatts and-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… expand the system, that’s fine. Um, just keep in mind you’ve only got one shot at doing that VEEC claim.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So when you do it, if you know there’s a likelihood of it being open-ended and perhaps there’s a stage two pending the performance of stage one-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… get your paperwork in here, order before your first claim, and don’t finish it till after your second claim.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So all these state programs, like we were talking about in our previous session on New South Wales, you’ve gotta have documentation in place before the upgrade occurs, at the beginning-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… clearly outlining what’s happening, what everyone’s expecting, and who’s involved.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So yeah, make sure you have a plan. You can’t fly by the seat of your pants in these programs.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
So you mentioned that the VEEC value could be similar to the STC value. So for just ease of claiming, ease of doing everything in one hit, um, could they just forego the STCs and just claim 200 kilowatt worth of VEECs?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, absolutely.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
I mean, what, Victoria these days, 20-ish grand of STCs, 100 kilowatts.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, 200 kilowatts of VEECs, 40-ish grand.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, okay.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So it’s almost like you did your two 100 kilowatts under STCs anyway.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah, okay.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And, um-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
If you’re doing a new site and 200 kilowatts makes sense, it sounds like do it all under VEECs.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
It’s probably the way to go.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So, okay, so up to 200 kilowatts, as explained, and I’m gonna harp on it one more time, is making sure you’re appropriately sized, that PV to the load profile, um, deal with supply partners here, and our Orchestra modeling, and Andrew and his team can help you make sure that that is appropriately sized so they get the right return. But let’s talk about when it becomes really important. So let’s say we’re gonna do a half a meg solar system in Victoria, and it’s in the measured scheme. Let’s, um, give, give the audience some detail about that.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yes. There’s two ways we can go about it under a measured approach. We can do it under what’s called SMM 4, or a specified measurement method, or we can do it under a full measurement verification claim.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
You’ve almost got small, medium, and large. Under 200 kilowatts is your small, then you’ve got your medium and your large in your measured world.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Ultimately, what both of the measured approaches mean is that it’s not about generation, it’s about how much of the solar’s generated energy that site actually uses for its business.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So if you’re selling your half a meg, your one meg solar system, and you assure the customer that they’re gonna use 80% of the energy and they don’t, they’ll know because we’ll come along and be paying them a very different sum to what you set the expectation for them-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… in 18 months’ time once the whole process is completed. ‘Cause the way it works is we get access to the solar measurement portal-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… um, whether that be a third-party meter or the inverted data, preferably both, and we’ll actually see how much energy was used. We’ll put that into a regression analysis. There’s a whole bunch of tools that we use under the Victorian Energy Upgrades program to make sure it’s done appropriately. And then at the end, we’ll be able to tell the customer, we have to provide an independent report saying, “Your solar pro- delivered X, Y, and Z.”

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
“And your site beforehand would’ve looked like this with a load profile, and now it looks like this.” So it makes sure the consumers get a really good educational experience.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And as long as the solar system is a really good modeled outcome, um, and was delivered properly, happy days. There’s a very significant amount of money on the table afterwards. So as far as business case, it’s big.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So could putting a commercial battery in to soak up some of that PV and then move that PV to be consumed at a later time, could that help them access more VEECs in a measured scheme?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, it’s interesting. So Victoria’s almost the inverse of what we’ve now seen in New South Wales with the PDRS, where the PDRS doesn’t have a solar incentive-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… but it will give you extra incentive if you’ve got new solar going in with your commercial battery.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, into the VEU program in the measured space, there’s no battery incentive.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But if you’re using more of your solar energy-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… um, well, that’s more VEECs.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
You’re, you’re reducing, you’re reducing that-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… that, that amount of load at the site, and therefore using more and getting more VEECs. Well, that’s really exciting, but I heard something a moment ago which sounds like there’s a really risky side to this as well. So if I was to go to a site and put a, I’ll say on the half a meg example, a half a megawatt PV system, put it in assuming the load profile’s gonna stay the same and they’re gonna burn up a certain amount of that energy and reduce, reduce their overall load at the site, and they’re gonna get a really generous payment on the VEECs, if all of a sudden that property changed their load profile, what, what could happen there, mate? How big is that risk?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Well, the risk is significant. If they shut up shop six months into a 12-month measurement period-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… you’re gonna create a lot less VEECs.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
If they wind down, they go from three manufacturing lines down to two, they use less energy, you’re gonna create less VEECs. So when we do a measured claim, and we do a huge amount of the market share in Victoria in that space, we sit down with the solar company-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… as well as with the customer, the asset owner, the consumer, and go, “This is how it works. If you do this, this will occur.” Explain it-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… um, and help them understand that a VEEC is a Victorian Energy Efficiency Certificate.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s not a Victoria Solar Certificate. It’s not about your b- solar plus battery. It’s about energy efficiency. So it comes down to if before you had that solar system, um, you had a spoon factory and you used a megawatt hour of energy to produce 1,000 spoons.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Afterwards, you only use half a megawatt hour of grid energy because the other half’s coming from the solar system to produce the same amount, happy days. You’ve got a really good claim on your hands.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But if you used less megawatt hours from the grid but you produced zero spoons, your efficiency hasn’t gone up.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It’s gone down ’cause you used something and you produced nothing.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So you’ve gotta have all three parties on the same page. So like I was saying with activity 47, in Victoria it’s really key to work with an activity provider, like Eco Advantage or others in the space that know what they’re doing, that have a history, particularly in the measured approach-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… it’s much more complex than your deemed approach, um, that understands if this is, happens, this will occur. Sit down with them, work through it, model the outcomes, and make sure whatever’s contracted as well with what the consumer’s expecting, that they understand that they have an input and that they will directly affect their own claim.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Have you seen people, like retailers or EPCs, put in their terms and conditions that it’s subject to low profile staying in the same area, or otherwise the customer needs to be expecting and, and have to be accepting that the, the incentive might be less?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah, absolutely. Um-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… actually, one of the more common contractual arrangements we see is that Ecovantage will end up paying the consumer themselves.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So the solar business will set it up, they’ll do their job, and then they’ll move on. They might come back for routine maintenance, whatever the case may be.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But the final outcome, obviously the solar company’s involved with it ’cause they’re the reason that all the good stuff happened.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But the consumer knows what’s going on ’cause they’re getting paid whatever reality is-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Sure

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… because there’s a lot that’s out of control of that solar company’s hand.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Really important thing to understand is making sure you’ve got clear guardrails around what the customer can expect and what can change if they change what they’re doing. So make sure your contracts have the right clauses. Work with somebody like Ecovantage who know what they’re doing, that can help guide you into this space. Uh, one thing I remember even talking about way back in the master class series, make sure you have the right professional indemnity insurance in place, because even if you’ve put forward-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. Mm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… a clause which you feel is clear, when somebody’s losing a big chunk of money, um, especially commercial business, which who, who you’re probably operating with, um, there’s a good chance that they might try to, uh, get some legal involved to try to see if they can claw back that money, even if they were given a clear clause. That’s where you want professional indemnity insurance to be there-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… to protect your business, um, to help, uh, fight against those things if they occur. Hopefully, they don’t, if you’re working with the right people. Um, but it, you know, it’s a real risk when you’re giving a lot high level financial advice on commercial solar. Um, it’s, it’s an important thing to, to keep in mind. Um,

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
any other pitfalls or, or things you see people, um, fall into the trap of under the VEEC scheme?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Probably the biggest amount of, uh, retraining we have to do is in that 200 kilowatts and under space, because it feels so similar to STCs.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
But teaching, um, those who are operating under there things like, you know, you have to have a single line diagram as evidence and it has to have version control on it.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Just little things like upping the game around what you deliver makes a big difference-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… because otherwise, you can be a perfectly good solar company. You know your stuff. On the roof, you are the king of your trade.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Paperwork matters.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So again, being trained, understanding it, don’t just go, “Yep, I watched the video whilst I was watching t- telly at night.”

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
[laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
“Now I’m good to go.”

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
[laughs]

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Um, ’cause all of a sudden you’re not gonna get your VEECs otherwise.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Get your documentation signed before your upgrade.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
So pick your partner-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… really-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Exactly

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… before you’re putting the proposal forward to the end user-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… to make sure you’re securing your profits and securing the returns for the investment that that commercial building owner’s-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Don’t make an assumption.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
It hurts.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
For sure. Well, really exciting opportunities under the Victorian, uh, scheme there with the VEECs, and if you don’t know about that space, um, hope you learned something there, but go and reach out to specialists and you’re pretty much crazy if you’re just quoting 100 kilowatt systems-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… ’cause you think the VEECs is too hard or something I can’t do. It’s just about understanding what’s happening and putting the right processes in place and making sure that you do it in the right staged methods so then you don’t burn yourself out there in the market.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
I, I do understand it because there’s a lot of people, even to this day, who never even looked into LGCs because-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
… they thought that was really complicated. Now, when you take the time to understand it, it’s actually super straightforward. Now, VEECs, again, are another layer or multiple layers above that as far as complexity goes, but I think it’s definitely worth taking the time to understand it, because if you don’t, uh, one of your competitors is going to and they’re gonna snake the deal, because there’s a lot of money on the table.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah. And look, and that’s why APs like us exist, right? Like, our job is to make complex policy simple.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
We’re not selling to the consumer, we’re not trying to do solar ourselves. We stay in our lane-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… um, because we have to understand the other stuff, and that’s our job to do the other bits and pieces. So just like you said, learn it, figure out who knows it, and work together. It’s a team effort.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
And partner with the right people.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Yeah.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Like, we try to make sure that our customers are armed with the tools to be able to win quotes, and if you go out and just quote 100 kilowatt system, you could come up against a Supply Partners customer who knows what they’re doing, maybe working with you as well, who will come in with a 200 kilowatt system with double the incentive and the same returns, uh, for a bigger system, and you’re gonna get blown out of the water. So-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
And ultimately, that’s better for the customer, right? Like, th- they should have a system that’s sized for their load profile-

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
… not for your limited understanding of programs.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm-hmm.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
So do the right thing by your customer, learn what’s going on.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
That’s it. Close more deals in Victoria.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Uh, really great update there. Thank you, Aaron. So that’s actually just been a really good chat about incentives and opportunities in the C&I space across Australia. Uh, first of all, I just wanna say thank you so much, Aaron Jenkins, CEO of Ecovantage, for coming in and learning a bit more for a third time on-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
[laughs]

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… the Solar Coaster podcast. Uh, but you know, you’re definitely a great firm, I think, for people to partner with to make sure that they’re setting themselves up for success and making sure that they understand how these, in some cases, very complex schemes work, but you guys make it simple for people, yeah?

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
That’s our job.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Yeah. Awesome.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Get paid, understand it.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Awesome. So, uh, reach out to Ecovantage or another partner who really know what they’re doing in that space, and make sure you also are building proposals that are gonna be correct for the end user. Um, we’re touching on earlier the fact we helped people, uh, using standard kind of quoting software understand appropriate sizing of PV to low profiles and helping people move past that barrier of 30 kVA to 100 kVA 10 odd years ago. Um, we’re now doing something very similar, helping people into a bigger space using this Orchestra software. Uh, and this Orchestra software is really powerful stuff, um, but it’s quite complex to use, and some of the businesses which do C&I every day of the week can justify the, the really high license cost for it. Uh, but at Supply Partners, we pay for a enterprise license level-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… where we can do proposals on a project by project basis and just charge you for that one project, and have specialists like Andrew and his team-

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… um, do these, these feasibilities and make sure that the outputs are, are accurate, and accurate as they can be to what information we’re given.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm-hmm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Andrew, what would you point out to people in, in, in that area?

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
I’d, I’d just say that if, if you’re playing in this space or you, you wanna enter this space, you can’t just be using your stock standard proposal platforms. Those, those tools are great in, in, for, for their intended application, but they aren’t tailored to, to these sorts of larger projects, and ultimately, you’re presenting to CFOs, you’re presenting to a board of directors. You need to get those, uh, people on board with, with the numbers. Um, and these proposals, uh, do exactly that. They take away the, the technical aspects. They don’t focus on the products.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Mm.

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
It’s just, “Let’s look at the numbers. Let’s look at the carbon offsets.” Get those people on board because they’re the ones who are gonna be signing off on the job.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
That’s awesome, Andrew. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, Aaron, and that was a special edition of the Solar Coaster podcast. Uh, Supply Partners, I think it’s a good time to pull out the old slogan, which still rings-

[Andrew Thomson (Supply Partners)]
Yeah

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
… true, which is, “We’re not just a box mover. Technical support.” And this is a perfect example of that. We’re here to help your business, not just move a box of hardware to you, but work out a solution, work out how to package it up, design it, how to sell it, how to find the right partners, um, not just at Supply Partners, but partners like Ecovantage, and connect you with the right people using great software like Orchestra.

[Aaron Jenkins (Ecovantage)]
Mm.

[Lliam Ricketts (Supply Partners)]
Um, we can help you succeed in C&I. I hope you enjoyed the episode, and look out for the next special edition of the Solar Coaster. Thank you.